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E-Bike Survey – City Of Toronto

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  aragon 7 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #500055

    the medurn
    Participant

    I came across this survey the City of Toronto is running regarding e-bikes.
    http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/e-bikes/ (scroll down the page to find the survey link)

    It seems like “pedal assist” e-bikes and those scooter type e-bikes are classified as the same thing. Personally I can’t stand those scooter type e-bikes, and think they should all be destroyed! Pedal assist e-bikes however (e-bikes where you have to pedal to have battery assist) I agree with and don’t think they should be lumped into the same category.

    How do you feel about this issue??

    #579717

    aragon
    Participant

    Interesting survey, I filled it out.

    I agree with you about scooter-type e-bikes, and that pedal-assist e-bikes are a different category. In my mind, it must be still identifiable as a bicycle, but with a motor assist (electric, not the chainsaw-engine-powered-abomination I see downtown from time to time). These e-bikes encourage people of limited fitness to get out and ride, and don’t behave differently from a regular bicycle in regards to street riding, bike lanes, etc.

    The scooter type are much heavier and more dangerous to other bicycle operators, and are usually driven by a girl or guy with a clear reason that they cannot operate a regular motor vehicle/motorcycle/bicycle (complete stereotype, but I suspect a high correlation between operators of these scooters and individuals with their licenses revoked due to DUI convictions…. :drunkbastard ). I cringe when I see one in the bike lane, or in the car lane, or really anywhere (often on the sidewalk – nice buddy!!) – they just do not fit in with any definition of safe travel on roads, imho!

    #579716

    encorp
    Participant

    I can’t stand e bikes because the law surrounding their use isn’t up to date.

    Their wheel size allows them to be ridden on the sidewalk.. as such, you can do just about anything you want on them.. so they are unpredictable and that does not work when it comes to traffic. They need to be limited to road use only, and require a helmet, lights, and horn.

    EDIT: I had no idea that e-bikes can’t use bike lanes if under motor assist.

    #579715

    Trailhead
    Participant

    Thanks for bringing up that point Cam. There has been some big changes to the City of Toronto By-Laws;
    City of Toronto By-laws – Park Paths
    In City of Toronto Parks electric bicycles may be ridden on parks roads, but motors should not be used on parks paths and trails. This means that on paths such as the Waterfront – Martin Goodman Trail, Don Valley Trail, or Humber Trail, a Police Officer or bylaw officer may ticket an electric bicycle rider $305.00 for engaging their motor. A electric bicycle user may use their motor while traveling on roadways to arrive to a City Park, but once they enter the park, they must turn off their motor, and propel themselves by pedaling while in the City Park.

    All trail users should remember that the speed limit for parks paths and trails is 20 km/h.

    (and clearly in relation to Randal’s stereotypes 😉
    Additional Notes About E-bikes
    Pedals:
    If the pedals have been removed from an e-bike, it is no longer considered to be an e-bike.
    Removing the pedals makes it an illegal motor vehicle because it does not conform with the HTA definition of a power-assisted bicycle. Operators run the risk of being ticketed for operating a motor vehicle without registration and insurance. E-bike purchasers who have concerns with the pedal location may wish to consider other models and/or styles of e-bikes.
    Driving an e-bike while intoxicated:
    You do not need a driver’s licence to operate an e-bike. However, an e-bike is considered a motor vehicle under the Criminal Code of Canada. Anyone operating an e-bike while intoxicated can be charged for impaired driving under the Criminal Code of Canada. If convicted, the offender would be subject to the Criminal Code penalties, including a fine or jail time, and a driving prohibition.
    ** Suspended licences and e-bikes:
    If your driver’s licence is suspended, you may not be legally allowed to drive an e-bike. If you have been convicted under the Criminal Code of Canada that has resulted in a
    driving prohibition, you cannot legally operate an e-bike until the prohibition has been lifted. If your
    driver’s licence has been suspended under these or other circumstances, it is recommended that you
    discuss your situation with a licensed legal practitioner before deciding to operate an e-bike.

    The bottom line here is that E-bikes and E-scooters must drive outside of bike lanes with the other motorized vehicles (cars) where they belong. All motorized vehicles are now banned from park paths as they always have been (since the 1970’s).
    Hats off to City of Toronto for stepping up here! This is a big step in the right direction.

    #579712

    encorp
    Participant

    I won’t make any generalizations here about the intelligence of the average e-bike user, but I highly doubt any of them know this.

    #579713

    Trailhead
    Participant

    I think these changes will cause an increase in conflicts as this happy news for cyclists will not be as well received by the e-bike community.

    I think all cyclists will have to be patient while the new By-laws are learned by all.

    #579714

    Whynot
    Participant

    I haven’t ridden in the city for a loooong time, but when I did e-bikes were never a problem, but walkers on the damned bike paths were a huge PIA. 🙂

    #579711

    TheFinn
    Participant

    Good survey. I hope the rules get clarified. The problem with e-bikes on bike paths is that they travel most of the time at higher speeds than bicycles and they are extremely quiet. I’ll be pedaling to work and suddenly one of these things will zoom by me, no warning. I don’t buy into the argument that it encourages less fit people to go out, on the contrary it promotes inactive lifestyles as now people will have electric means (rather than walking/cycling) to get from A to B.

    #579710

    the medurn
    Participant

    @thefinn wrote:

    I don’t buy into the argument that it encourages less fit people to go out, on the contrary it promotes inactive lifestyles as now people will have electric means (rather than walking/cycling) to get from A to B.

    I think that is highly dependent on the type of e-bike. I believe most of the e-bikes in Europe only provide battery assist while the operator is pedaling (you can even select the % of assist it gives). That doesn’t mean you can’t coast on the bike, it just means if you do, the bike is no longer being self-propelled and simply coasts like a normal bike. It is this style of e-bike which encourages less fit people to get out on a bike. The type that looks like scooters are for lazy people!

    Here is a link to Kalkhoff’s (German Bike Company) ebikes: http://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/int/en/models/2013/category/e-bike-8.html

    #579707

    Whynot
    Participant

    @the medurn wrote:

    @thefinn wrote:

    I don’t buy into the argument that it encourages less fit people to go out, on the contrary it promotes inactive lifestyles as now people will have electric means (rather than walking/cycling) to get from A to B.

    I think that is highly dependent on the type of e-bike. I believe most of the e-bikes in Europe only provide battery assist while the operator is pedaling (you can even select the % of assist it gives). That doesn’t mean you can’t coast on the bike, it just means if you do, the bike is no longer being self-propelled and simply coasts like a normal bike. It is this style of e-bike which encourages less fit people to get out on a bike. The type that looks like scooters are for lazy people!

    Here is a link to Kalkhoff’s (German Bike Company) ebikes: http://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/int/en/models/2013/category/e-bike-8.html

    Who cares? If an e-bike is one less car, it’s a win in a city.

    #579708

    jcitizen
    Participant

    @whynot wrote:

    @the medurn wrote:

    @thefinn wrote:

    I don’t buy into the argument that it encourages less fit people to go out, on the contrary it promotes inactive lifestyles as now people will have electric means (rather than walking/cycling) to get from A to B.

    I think that is highly dependent on the type of e-bike. I believe most of the e-bikes in Europe only provide battery assist while the operator is pedaling (you can even select the % of assist it gives). That doesn’t mean you can’t coast on the bike, it just means if you do, the bike is no longer being self-propelled and simply coasts like a normal bike. It is this style of e-bike which encourages less fit people to get out on a bike. The type that looks like scooters are for lazy people!

    Here is a link to Kalkhoff’s (German Bike Company) ebikes: http://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/int/en/models/2013/category/e-bike-8.html

    Who cares? If an e-bike is one less car, it’s a win in a city.

    Yeah, I agree that more ebike and less car is a good thing, just think they should be deemed regular vehicles, pedals or not.

    #579709

    TheFinn
    Participant

    Fully agree, e-bikes are better than cars. Interestingly, in many European countries e-bikes and scooters (pedals or no pedals) with speed limiters at 40 km/h are meant to travel on side walks or bike paths (when available). I’d prefer them to be classified as cars. Not sure if there is much difference between a 50cc dirt bike and some of the bigger e-scooters in terms of weight/size.

    #579706

    EllistonJason
    Participant

    I also believe that ebike is best for travelling as its easy to ride and fast also so no need of two wheeler.

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